Archive for the ‘1997’ Category

Warships sunk during Guadalcanal

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 20:52:46 1997
>X-Sender: tcrobi@pop.mindspring.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:55:17 -0500
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: Tom Robison
>Subject: Re: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>James wrote:
> >Naval vessels are never abandoned and, by international agreement, > remain the
> >property of their country in perpetuity as military graves.
>
>Oh! I didn’t know that (obviously).
>
>
>Tom Robison
>Ossian, Indiana
>tcrobi@mindspring.com

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Re[2]: Scapa Flow Scuttle (was: Warships sunk during Guadalc

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 16:33:46 1997
>X-Sender: msmall@roanoke.infi.net
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32)
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:34:12 -0500
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: Marc James Small
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: Scapa Flow Scuttle (was: Warships sunk during
> Guadalc
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>At 03:19 PM 11/20/97 GMT, Bill Riddle wrote:
> > As lopng as we are addressing “fine points of law,” a friend just
> > pointed out to me that the crews, at that point, were no longer
> > “crews.” Rather, they were mutineers. Would admiralty law justify
> > blowing away mutineers?
>
>
>How were they mutineers? They were obeying the orders of their superior
>officers who were, in turn, obeying the orders sent them from Kiel. A copy
>of the radio message ordering this can be found in Roskill’s NAVAL POLICY
>BETWEEN THE WARS, Vol I.
>
>Marc
>
>
>msmall@roanoke.infi.net FAX: +540/343-7315
>Cha robh bas fir gun ghras fir!

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Scapa Flow Scuttle

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 17:11:33 1997
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:09:52 -0800
>From: Mike Potter
>Organization: Artecon, Inc.
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I)
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: Re: Scapa Flow Scuttle
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Dan van der Vat mentions the uncomtaminated steel story in his =The
>Grand Scuttle=. Other pre-1945 ships don’t seem to get special attention
>for their steel when they are scrapped. =Coral Sea= is being scrapped
>now. Does her steel carry a premium?
>
>This legend might have started with a story that the U of Utah installed
>an armored section from USS =Indiana= around a radiological lab because
>it was uncontaminated (perhaps true but consistent with possible
>salesmanship by a lab staff competing for research grants).
>
>Ex-USS/KM =Prinz Eugen= remains unscrapped in shallow water because her
>steel is contaminated, supposedly by long use of radium dials on
>displays rather than from Bikini’s test Baker. USNIP had an article on
>this about 20 years ago. If radium dials were indeed a source of
>contamination, the Scapa Flow ships might have the same problem and
>therefore present more rather than less of a radiation hazard.
>
>Van der Vat’s book doesn’t mention retribution against the Germans by
>the British, other than they verbally denounced the German admiral who
>commanded the scuttling. The US Govt was happy to hear that the fleet
>was sunk since it removed an awkward point of contention with the
>British; check the NY Times for the days following the scuttling.
>
> > My command of the field of metallurgy is not encylopedic, but I am VERY
> > skeptical about the radiation shielding. Iron ores or several > types are very
> > common and finding “uncontaminated” ore I should would be very easy.
>
>–
>Michael C. Potter, Mgr, TelCo/Govt Programs mike.potter@artecon.com
>Artecon, Inc. | | mail PO Box 9000
>6305 El Camino Real -|- _|_ Carlsbad CA
>Carlsbad CA 92009 >_|_( |/_>ph 760-431-4465 >_III_ V|/ _III_ |/|_o fx 760-931-5527
> =-| L/_| _|____L_/_|==
> ___ ________|____-===L|_LL| -==| .___ |
> ___. __I____|_[_]_______|_____[__||____[_]_|__|_=====_|\__–+====–/
>\_____/|_|__| == 963 /
>|

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Warships sunk during Guadalcanal

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 18:49:58 1997
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:47:51 -0800
>From: Tracy Johnson
>Organization: Answers
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: Re: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Eric Bergerud wrote:
> >
> > As it happens I talked about coral in the SOPAC with one of the bigwigs at
> > UC Berkeley last year and he tells me that experts are in despair > concerning
> > the subject.
>
>Yes but usually the politically correct hacks at Berkeley will also get
>into despair over the sight of red meat at a McDonalds, so who knows how
>important it really is?
>–
>Tracy Johnson
>Computer Associates International Inc.
>(Opinions expressed on public forums
>such as list-servers are mine and are
>not representative of my employer.)
>- – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
>(For interactive games…)
>Minister of Propaganda, Justin Thyme Productions
>tjohnson@adnetsol.com
>”Trust No One”
>”Semper Pollus”
> ADC-2239-5531

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Warships sunk during Guadalcanal

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 20:52:46 1997
>X-Sender: tcrobi@pop.mindspring.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:55:17 -0500
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: Tom Robison
>Subject: Re: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
> >Yes but usually the politically correct hacks at Berkeley will also get
> >into despair over the sight of red meat at a McDonalds, so who knows how
> >important it really is?
>
>Now, Tracy, it’s not P.C. to demean the “politically correct hacks at
>Berkeley”.
>You might injure their self-esteem. ;>)
>
>
>Tom Robison
>Ossian, Indiana
>tcrobi@mindspring.com

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Scapa Flow Scuttle (was: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal)

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Nov 20 21:25:32 1997
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:25:10 -0500
>From: Brooks A Rowlett
>Organization: None whatsoever
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: Re: Scapa Flow Scuttle (was: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Eric Bergerud wrote:
>
> > >
> > My command of the field of metallurgy is not encylopedic, but I am VERY
> > skeptical about the radiation shielding. Iron ores or several > types are very
> > common and finding “uncontaminated” ore I should would be very easy.
>
>….(largish snip)
>
>. The Scapa Flow bit sounds
> > like one of those “urban legends” to me. If not, it would be one heck of a
> > good bit of WWI trivia for us all to cherish.
>
>I have addressed this bit once before. There are two problems with
>newly dug iron ores – fallout and a practice of using radiation
>sources for measurements in the blast furnaces, not a technology
>employed until after WW2. The smelting process blows air through the ore
> mix and the air bears the minute quantities of contaminants. Radiation
>sheilding made from old armor is cut straight from plates without
>remelting/resmelting.
>
>The expalnation of this I found in:
>
>THE SOPHISTICATED LADY: THE BATTLESHIP _INDIANA_ IN WORLD WAR TWO, by
>Myron J Smith, Jr.; Ft Wayne Public Library, 1973.
>
>”Some 210 tons of her plate now forms a lead-lined laboratroy for
>radiation research under the lawn of the medical center at Salt Lake
>City, Utah. It was chosen because it was free from cobalt-60, now
>present in steel blast furnaces as an indicator, which could effect
>(sic) those sensitivbe experiments involving the measurement of
>radioactivity. Another 65 tons of her armor serves a similar purpose at
>the Veteran’s Administration Hospital in hines, Illinois.” He has a
>reference to the Navla histoprical Center’s HISTORIC SHIP EXHIBITS IN
>THE UNITED STATES, of 1969, which was also partly or entirey published
>as an appendix in a DANFS volume.”
>
>(Myron SMith later became the author of several books on the slow
>older battleships, published in a long softbound format like Squadron
>’In Action’ series. with names like KEYSTONR STATE BATTLEWAGON,
>MOUNTAINEER STATE BNATTLEWAGON, etc.)
>
>Brooks A Rowlett

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SIGNOFF

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Nov 21 10:27:04 1997
>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:28:05 +0100
>To: mahan@microworks.net, wwii-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu,
> mahan@microwrks.com
>From: ezbanter@qni.com
>Subject: SIGNOFF
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>SIGNOFF

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Warships sunk during Guadalcanal

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Nov 21 01:47:29 1997
>X-Errors-To:
>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 03:47:13 -0500 (EST)
>X-Sender: rickt@pop3.cris.com
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>From: rickt@cris.com (Eric Bergerud)
>Subject: Re: Warships sunk during Guadalcanal
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
> >Eric Bergerud wrote:
> >>
> >> As it happens I talked about coral in the SOPAC with one of the bigwigs at
> >> UC Berkeley last year and he tells me that experts are in > despair concerning
> >> the subject.
> >
> >Yes but usually the politically correct hacks at Berkeley will also get
> >into despair over the sight of red meat at a McDonalds, so who knows how
> >important it really is?
> >–
> >Tracy Johnson
>
>The destruction of coral reefs is not a politically correct fantasy. The
>Australian government is most concerned because the Gold Coast is such a
>major source of revenue. BTW Berkeley is, among other things, the home of
>one of the greatest universities in the world. Perhaps Mr. Johnson believes
>trees cause air pollution?
>Eric Bergerud, 531 Kains Ave, Albany CA 94706, 510-525-0930

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SIGNOFF

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Nov 21 10:27:13 1997
>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:28:05 +0100
>To: mahan@microworks.net, wwii-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu,
> mahan@microwrks.com
>From: ezbanter@qni.com
>Subject: SIGNOFF
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>SIGNOFF

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Book: Barrier and the Javelin

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Fri Nov 21 10:01:47 1997
>Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:10:02 +0100
>To: wwii-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu, mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Book: Barrier and the Javelin
>X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.12
>X-Sender: 0611603955-0001@t-online.de
>From: BWV_WIESBADEN@t-online.de (Tim Lanzendoerfer)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>Reply-To: mahan@microworks.net
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>since I have recently bought “Empires in the Balance” by H.P. >Willmott, I would
>like to hear from people who’ve read it and the one in the >signature. Are they
>worth the 32$ I have/will pay for them??
>
>Tim
>
>Tim Lanzendoerfer | “I have just taken on a great
>Amateur Naval Historian | responsibility. I will do my
>Email: BWV_Wiesbaden@t-online.de | utmost to meet it” – Nimitz
>—————————————————————–
> The United States Navy in the Pacific War 1941 – 1945
> http://www.microworks.net/pacific
> The ships, the men, the battles
>—————————————————————–

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The Mahan Naval Discussion List hosted here at NavalStrategy.org is to foster discussion and debate on the relevance of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's ideas on the importance of sea power influenced navies around the world.
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