Archive for the ‘1998’ Category

WWOne U-boat page

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

This appeared on the WWI mailing list – Brooks:

> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:57:05 -0500 (EST)
> From:
> To: WWI-L@UKANS.EDU
> Subject: Untersee Boote
> Message-ID: <685579d1.34ccce73@aol.com>
>
>
> If anyone is interested in World War I U-boats, This is an excellent site:
>
> http://home.t-online.de/home/03496211294-0001/index.htm
>
> Note: This web page belongs to Michael Weise, he does not speak any english,
> but if you corrospond with him, he will get your message translated, be
> patient,
> it may take a couple of days for a reply.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Schwartz
> Pacific Northwes

Remember the Maine!

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Kinda funny when you think about it…

The explosion of the Maine was attributed to the Cubans, when in fact it
was probably an accident. Yet the news media took the incident and created
a war out of it (thanks to Pulitzer and Hearst).

One wonders if the news media of today is going to bring down a president,
despite the fact that most of the population seems to think it’s not a big
deal.
(myself included, even though I’m a raving conservative).

The bottom line to this train of thought is, what would the world be like
today if the Spanish-American War had not occurred?

Just waxing philosophical at this late hour…

Tom

Tom Robison
Ossian, Indiana
**Please Note NEW E-mail Address*
tcrobi@adamswells.com

Kronprinz Wilhelm and Prinz Eitel Friedrich

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Of the four-stacker liners:

KAISER WILHELM DER GROSSE became a raider, sinking three ships for total
of 10,500 GRT. She was caught bunkering off Rio del oro, Spanish West
Africa, by British cruiser HMS HIGHFLYER. When the German captain
refused to surrenderm, HIGHFLYER opened fire. After a duel of 90
minutes the HIGHFLYER, was scarcely damaged but out of ammo. KAISER W.
then abandoned ship, and scuttled via exposive charges.

DEUTSCHLAND, renamed VICTORIA LUISE in 1913, was in German waters when
WWI began. She was fited for auxiliary cruiser service but her boilers
were in bad shape; she remained in Germany. The allies waived their
demand for her surrender because of her bad shape. She was overhauled
in 1920-21 and sailed in late 1921 under the name HANSA. Her passenger
accommodation was altered again in 1924, but she was laid up in Oct
1924, and scrapped in 1925.

KRONRPRINZ WILHELM was seized by the US on April 6 1917& entered US
service in as USN Transport VON STEUBEN. She was laid up in 1919 and
sold for scrap in 1923.

KAISER WILHELM II was seized by the US on 6 Apr 1917 and served as USN
Transport AGAMEMNON. She was also laid up in 1919. In 1929 she was
renamed MONTICELLO. She survived until 1940 and was offered to the
British goverment, but despite the need for ships was considered in
too bad shape and was refused. She was then scapped by Boston Iron
and Metal Co.

KRONPRINZESSIN CECILIE. also interned in the US, was likewise seized on
6 APr 1917. She became the transport MOUNT VERNON. She was damaged by
a U-boat torpedo 200 nmi off Brest w/36 dead (hit in boiler room) on 5
Sept 1918. She was laid up in 1919, and then her fate was as KAISER
WILHELM II.

PRINZ EITEL FRIDRICH was a smaller, 10,000 grt two-funnel vessel. As
such she just misses the size criterion for Kludas GREAT PASSENGER
SHIPS OF THE WORLD (from which I extracted the above). However,
acording to Paul Schmalenbach*, GERMAN RAIDERS, P.E.F. became the U S
Transport DEKALB, in 1921 named MOUNT CLAY. She was broken up in 1927.
Conversely Schmalenbach says KAISER W.D.G. >was< badly damaged, and was sunk by her own crew after fires aboard from hits, went out of control. her guns and crew had come from the two old gunboats PATNERH and LUCHS at Tsingtao. The crews of the Auxiliary cruisers at least were consisdered internees until the entry of the US into the war and after that prisoners of war. I don't know about the crews of the vessels that were in the US at the beginning of the war interned as liners without ever being raiders. 402 crew from P.E.F. and 503 from KRONPR. W. were interned. In addition, the raider CORMORAN interned at Guam and was sunk by her own crew at the US entry into the war, 7 crew dying in the scuttling, leaving 346 to become POW's. CORMORAN had been a prize seized by the EMDEN and sent into Tsingtao. KAISER WILHELM DER GROSSE lost no crew killed; 81 escaped ashore and were interned in Spanish custody; 503 wre taken as British POW's. K.W.D.G. had been armed from the crusier KARLSRUHE. A not-too-hard to find book if one frequents used bookstores & book shows is THE CRUISE OF THE KRONPRINZ WILHELM, which is further apparently almost always found autographed by the author, Count Alfred von Niezychowski, who had been a Lt. aboard. The book was published by Doubleday in 1928 and reissued in 1931. When KRONPRINZ WILHELM arrived at Newport news, she had onlly 25 tons of coal, sufficient for only another two hours steaming, only 10 tons of fresh water, and 86 cases of scurvy (Schmalenbach) or beriberi (Count von Niezychowski) *Schamlenbach, a noted postwar chronicler of German Naval activities, had been gunnery officfer of WWII cruiser PRINZ EUGEN. -Brooks

Remember the _Maine_!

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

The new Feb 1998 _National Geographic_ arrived in the mail today and one
of the articles is a computer aided analysis of the sinking of the
_Maine_. I just skimmed it, but it seems that the conclusion is that it
could have been either an internal explosion or a mine that sunk the
ship.

Steve Alvin
Dept. of Social Sciences
Illinois Valley Community College

salvin@ocslink.com

“I have snatched my share of joys from the grudging hand of fate
as I have jogged along, but never has life held for me anything
quite so entrancing as baseball.”–Clarence Darrow

Remember the _Maine_!

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Good grief: is nothing safe? I thought Admiral Rickhover solved that one a
few years ago. Actually, I’ve long thought that German agents did it aided
by Czarist and Japanese coconspirators. Clear as a bell when you think about
it. Curse you Tirpitz!

>The new Feb 1998 _National Geographic_ arrived in the mail today and one
>of the articles is a computer aided analysis of the sinking of the
>_Maine_. I just skimmed it, but it seems that the conclusion is that it
>could have been either an internal explosion or a mine that sunk the
>ship.
>
>–
>
>Steve Alvin
>Dept. of Social Sciences
>Illinois Valley Community College
>
Eric Bergerud, 531 Kains Ave, Albany CA 94706, 510-525-0930

Mahan Website is up

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

Well I quickly threw together a website for the Mahan list. On the site are
subscription information and links to download items that are submitted to
the list.

The first things posted to download are as follows:

“Attached are two files “sunk1.zip” and “sunk2.zip”. They are extracts
from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS) and detail
all the USN major commissioned ships sunk during World War II. I
downloaded it from CompuServe five or six years ago and don’t know its
pedigree, but I have spot-checked it and it appears very sound. They
were popular among researchers when I was assigned to the Naval
Historical Center.

“Sunk1.zip” covers the following ship classes, with the ship names
arranged in alphabetical order: Aircraft Carriers (all types),
Battleships, Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers, Destroyer
Escorts, and Destroyer Transports.

“Sunk2.zip” covers the following ship classes, with the ship names
arranged in alphabetical order: Submarines, Mine Vessels, Patrol
Vessels, and Fleet Auxiliaries.”

|———————————————————–|
| David W. Riddle | http://www.microworks.net |
| (O) 602-813-4569 | http://www.openlines.com |
| (F) 602-813-4659 | http://www.surfpools.com |
| | |
| 1958 TR-3A TS34575L | An interesting company legal |
| vintage racer | history website! |
| | http://www.splashpools.com |
|———————————————————–|

Market Query … and “purple-blues”

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

SOMEbody BLOT this punabomber before he “blotches” our lists again! :-O
🙂

Lou

> Louis R. Coatney wrote:
> > *purple*-blue?? *Why* would anyone put red in a naval camouflage color??
> > Shades of “Mountbatten Pink”! 😮 🙂

On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, David “Inky” Scott wrote:

> So if the ship sank, no lives would be lost. They’d only be “marooned”!
>
> Now I shall run for the hills before anybody can smack me.
> —
> David “Inky” Scott Member of the Bermuda Triangle
> daves@interoz.com Expedition Force: 1997-1951
> InterCity Oz Web Architect Yes, my actions represent the typical
> http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z5d31 student at Texas Tech University.
> Member of Legion West Roleplaying and 10,000 Animeniacs Anime Club
> Last Games Played: Mythos, Babylon 5 Wars, Adel Verflichtecht

>
>

Kronprinz Wilhelm and Prinz Eitel Friedrich

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

While reading A.A. Hoehling’s _The Great War at Sea_ (New York: Thomas
Y. Crowell Company, 1965), I came across the following:

Britain seemed to be winning the naval phase of the great war.
Germany’s raiders, one by one, were being knocked off the seas
or compelled to give themselves up because their supply lines
had been cut.

The Kronprinz Wilhelm, for example, arrived in Newport News
in April, after sinking fifteen merchant ships, aggregating 58,000
tons. Unable to continue her patrols without fuel or ammunition,
she was interned beside another, but less successful, armed liner,
the Prinz Eitel Friedrich. Captain Paul Thierfelder, who had been
given permission to “lay up the ship” after a remarkable 250-day
cruise, could for the remainder of the war devote his crew’s energies
to the oft-interrupted rat hunt (The Kronprinz Wilhelm had been
infested with rats from a previous cargo. Thierfelder was forced to
dispatch his crew into the cargo holds after the rats drove the liner’s
cats, as well as several ferrets purchased in New York, into the
crew’s quarters.)

On board were a number of small English sports cars that had been
removed from the holds of one of his victims, sunk by the clumsy
method of ramming, one of his favorite tactics. On calm, quiet days,
he had allowed his men to race the little cars around the broad
promenade deck of the spacious Hamburg-American liner. Now, he took
them ashore for less restricted courses (90-91).

Three questions:

(1). What happened to the Kronprinz Wilhelm and the Prinz Eitel
Friedrich after the United States entered the war? I assume that they
were taken into naval service alongside other interned German merchant
vessels. If so, what were their new names and ultimate fates?

(2). Were the interned crews treated as enemy aliens or POWs following
the U.S. declaration of war?

(3). Was the Kronprinz Wilhelm ACTUALLY large enough to allow for auto
racing on board? Would U.S. authorities have allowed Thierfelder to take his
crew ashore to stage such races?

Take care.

Edward Wittenberg
ewitten507@aol.com

Trivia Puzzle – Ocean Liners

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

The following is correct by my reckoning:

Hello List,
I have come up with
1.-Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse
2. Deutschland
3. Kronprinz Wilhelm
4. Kaiser Wilhelm II
5. Kronprinzissin Cecielie
6. France(1912)
7. Lusitania
8. Mauretania
9. Titanic
10. Olympic
11. Aquitania
12. Brittanic
13. Windsor Castle(1922)
14. Arundel Castle

-Bob

The last two are often overlooked; and were converted to two funnels in
1937-38 refits.
This question arose because I saw an ad for a book on the four stack
liners, the ad stating that only 14 four stackers were built, so I had to
look them up myself…. I found them in Kludas vols. 1&2.

The answer to Trevor Kenchington’s question, as to which had 5 funnels,
would be the very first entry in Kludas, the GREAT EASTERN.

-Brooks

Files and other stuff….

Sunday, January 18th, 2009

I will make up a small Mahan home page and if someone has files they would
like available to others to download (since lots of peoples firewalls etc
do not allow attachments) I will make a download page that people can FTP
or HTTP transfer files from.

Send any files you want to see posted to me and I will move it to an FTP
directory on our server and add a link to it on the page I will put up.

The address of the page will be http://www.microworks.com/mahan

|———————————————————–|
| David W. Riddle | http://www.microworks.net |
| (O) 602-813-4569 | http://www.openlines.com |
| (F) 602-813-4659 | http://www.surfpools.com |
| | |
| 1958 TR-3A TS34575L | An interesting company legal |
| vintage racer | history website! |
| | http://www.splashpools.com |
|———————————————————–|

Purpose
The Mahan Naval Discussion List hosted here at NavalStrategy.org is to foster discussion and debate on the relevance of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's ideas on the importance of sea power influenced navies around the world.
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