Aside from the odd statement that “a North Sea force, [was] a direct and
unambiguous threat to the United Kingdom,” (as if a trans-Atlantic
force, like the Russian or French guerre de course cruisers, would be
less of a threat to British interests?) the decision to make a North Sea
force was deliberate. You are on the right course in that one can save
a lot of space by limiting the space allocated to fuel, berthing, and
food if you don’t need high-endurance ships. You can instead add more
armor or hull redundancies, more damage control equipment, larger fire
control apparatus, and even more ammunition (I leave the specific
differences up to the WW1 naval experts)—all because you don’t need
warships to sail half-way around the world on a regular basis. The
designs were different from the RNs, just as everybody’s designs were
slightly different from everbody elses based on the specific political,
military, financial, economic, and strategic situation.

Timothy L. Francis
Historian
Naval Historical Center
email address: Francis.Timothy@nhc.navy.mil
voice: (202) 433-6802

The above remarks are my opinions, not those of the U.S. Navy or the
Department of Defense

> ———-
> From: Bill Riddle[SMTP:riddleb@fhu.disa.mil]
> Reply To: mahan@microworks.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:37 AM
> To: mahan@microwrks.com
> Subject: The Kaiser’s Fleet
>
> The author states that in 1907 “…British naval strategists
> observed
> with concern that the Kaiser’s new battle-fleet was of such
> limited
> range that it was effectively a North Sea force, thus making it a
>
> direct and unambiguous threat to the United Kingdom.”
>
> My questions: What was it that so limited the German fleet?
> (Inadequate
> bunker space … consumable storage … crew limits … ?) Did
> their
> designs vary so much from other navies? A deliberate design
> compromise for some reason? A mistake?

I don’t have ACES OF THE DEEP but I do own two or three authentic WWII
German charts with the grid system with code letters.

Jurgen Rohwer’s AXIS U-BOAT SUCCESSES 1939-45 (English title; don’t recall
without going home and looking what the ‘auf Deutsch’ version is
called) reproduces the world reference chart set where one can at least
look up the first two letters of an area. We have discussed this chart
system once or twice on MARHST in the past.

I asked if anyone had ever produced, or would be interested in producing,
a computer application (preferably Java) that would convert a grid square
co-ordinate to Lat/Long and back. I got some expressions of interest but
lost all the material when my hard disk died at the end of July 97…

At any rate, for those who aren’t clear on this, the Kriegsmarine issued
charts with a grid system superimposed on them. The grid had two-letter
designations for large squares, covering ocean & coastal areas. Each of
these large squares would be divided into 9 small squares, and each of
those into 9, down about 3 or 4 levels. The alpha code of each square
would comprise a position, and position reports and often log entries were
made in these coordinates rather than lat-long.

Without looking at an actual chart, this is an INCORRECT example for
location, but does show how the system worked:

FIrst two letters denote chart location: example : FH
Looking at Atlantic chart this turns out to be , say , by the west coast
of Africa. The next two letters area for example EC – E puts it into the
center square of the 9 sub-squares of square FH:
ABC
DEF
GHI
and C puts it in the northeast sub-sub-square of subsquare E…..

(Except that without looking at one of the charts to jog my memory, they
may use numbers instead of letters at one level)…

But that is the general idea. Obviously, there is some security in your
position and scouting reports even if they are in plain language, if the
enemy doesn’t have your charts with how to interpret this grid.

-Brooks

USCGC (Roger B.) Taney was decommissioned by the US Coast Guard on 7 Dec
1986 and transferred to the City of Baltimore. She is currently a
historic ship located in Baltimore’s Inner Harbor.

Chris Havern
USCG Historian’s Office
chavern@comdt.uscg.mil

>

HMS ROYALIST commissioned at Greenock on 25th August 1943, and operated
as flagship for escort carriers, to Norwegian coast and against TIRPITZ.
Joined Medi fleet 7/1944 for south of France landings and Aegean
occupation. Early 1945 to East Indies for operations off Sumatra and
Malaya with escort carriers. At surrender of Singapore by Japanese
9/1945. HMS ROYALIST Returned to England 1/1946 to reserve at
Portsmouth.

ROYALIST was formally handed over to New Zealand at Devonport, England,
on 9th July 1956. She arrived at Auckland on 20th December 1956.

ROYALIST breakdown.

When returning from the Far East station after what was to have been her
last tour anyway, ROYALIST had to stop engines on 1st November 1965
after the discovery of serious salt-water contamination of condenser
feed-water, and badly damaged boilers and evaporators (“condenseritis”).
She was steaming past the Solomon Islands, off Bellona Island, about 80
miles south of Guadalcanal at the time, and drifted overnight until
towed 110 miles by the survey ship HMS DAMPIER into open water. ROYALIST
drifted for several days until the Brisbane tug CARLOCK took her in tow
on 7th November. HMNZS LACHLAN arrived from Auckland on 9th November
with much-needed fuel, mail, spares and stores, and escorted ROYALIST
the rest of the way to Auckland. Sufficient steam from one boiler was
raised on 11th November and CARLOCK dropped the tow the next morning.
ROYALIST arrived at Auckland under reduced power on 17th November 1965
and berthed. She was destored and paid off five months prematurely. She
was used as an alongside training ship at Auckland until decommissioned
on 4th July 1966.

ROYALIST had valuable fittings and equipment removed after
decommissioning and was sold in November 1967 to the Nissho Company of
Osaka, Japan, for breaking up. She left Auckland on 31st December 1967
in tow of the Japanese tug FUJI MARU, and arrived at Osaka about four
weeks later.

ROYALIST was the last of ten cruisers to serve in New Zealand since
PHILOMEL arrived at Auckland in July 1914. The full list, in
chronological order of service is: PHILOMEL,CHATHAM, DUNEDIN, DIOMEDE,
ACHILLES,LEANDER, GAMBIA, BELLONA, BLACK PRINCE and finally ROYALIST.

Her breakdown was not our proudest moment!

Source:-“New Zealand Naval Vessels” by R.J. McDougall, 1989, ISBN
0-477-01399-6

“New Zealand Marine News” Vol.19 No.4, Autumn 1968.

Bill Riddle wrote:

> [snip] I believe she was a Pearl Harbor survivor, only to be lost to
> hostile
> action 40+ years later. And as she is now entombed in some of the
> least hospitable water on earth, her memory will soon fade.

I can verify that she was the last Navy survivor of Pearl Harbor. The USCG had
a cutter there which I believe is a museum now. Can’t remember her name.

Mark Perry

In a message dated 98-01-20 16:37:22 EST, you write:

<< I'm disappointed ... I was sure someone would have some information on Royalist. >>

I missed the original message, but offer the following:

ROYALIST was a modified DIDO class cruiser (four vs five 5.25 mounts) built by
Scotts and completed 10 SEP 43. Following service with the RN, she was
transferred to NZ in 1956 and sold for scrapping in 1967. – Source: British
Cruisers of WWII – Raven and Roberts.

Al Ross II

Well, I have nothing on HMS Royalist but if you look at

> http://www.envirolink.org/issues/nuketesting/hew/Uk/index.html
>
you’ll find out the fate of the 1450-ton frigate HMS Plym.

Timothy L. Francis
Historian
Naval Historical Center
email address: Francis.Timothy@nhc.navy.mil
voice: (202) 433-6802

This arose from a thread on the Harpoon Naval Wargame mailing list about
the ocnfiguration and displacement of the Midway class. I posted the
following reply, and request comments, hole-fills, and clarifications.
Aplogies if you also get the Harpoon list and this is a duplicate.

BEGIN:
MIDWAY and FDR commissioned with 18 x 5″/54 Mk 39 single mounts
(possibly reason for confusion with 5″/38 cal.). CORAL SEA was not
Comm’d until 1947 and had only 14. MIDWAY CV41 and FDR CV42 had 21 x
40mmm quad and 28 20mm, apparently singles even though twins were coming
into common use. They originally had 4 x Mk 37 FC directors with cams
recut for the 5″/54 ballistics. They comm’d with SK-2 air search, SX
height finder and SR-4 back-up air and surface search radar. The Mk
37’s were located on pylons fore and aft of the island, and on the port
side below the flight deck, one abaft the LSO platform, the other
forward
of the portside elevator. The Mk 37’s had radar Mk 12/22 for 5″ fire
control. The ships also carried 6 Mk 57 directors with radar Mk 29 for
5″ control, and a further 8 mk 57 directos with radar Mk 29 and 12
Mk 63 directors with radar Mk 34/Mod 2 for the 40 mm guns.

Commissioning Standard displacement is reportedly 45,000 tons; full load
at 60,000.

By may 47 MIDWAY had the forward stbd Mk 37 director raised to the top
of the island, and the island enlarged. She had lost the SK-2 antenna,
replacing it with what appears to be an SG-6 late version of the WWII
surface search radar.

CORAL SEA when comm’d as stated above had only 14 x 5″/54 guns; she
also comm’d with empty gun tubs where the 40mm would have been. By
1949 these were filled with 20 x twin 3″/50 AA. She had no SK-2 from
the start She also has the bow closed off, thought not a full hurricane
configuration. finally the Mk 37 directors have been fitted with Mk 25
radar isntead of Mk 12/22. FDR shows the 5″ change and the removal of
the port Mk 37 directors as well as the same superstructure alteration
as MIDWAY by 1950. A photo of 10 Jan 51 shows the 40mm now replaced.
The FC radar on the Mk 37 directors is now Mk 25, and the SR-4 and the
SG-6 have been replaced by two SPS-6. MIDWAY shows an SPS-8 in place
of the SX, and some Mk 56 directors as well as the substitution of the
3″/50 in a 1952 Photo. In 1953 MIDWAY now has 2 x SPS-6, and a closure
of the bow – not the full hurricane bow seen on the rebuilt ESSEXES or
MIDWAY class later, but a closing off of the open section still leaving
the forepeak with its 2 x 3″/50 twins protruding out, and slightly more
bulging out than CORAL SEA’s. FDR had this closing installed in 1954.

insterestingly, even though it ahd been removed from the others, an
SK-2 antenna was installed on CORAL SEA by 1954, aft where the second
SPS-6 was on the other two ships. She carried this up to her 1957
modernization at Puget Sound. Also in 1954 SPS-8 can be seen in place
of SX.

MIDWAY and FDR received the SCB-110 modernization program CV42 – 1 May
54 to 6 Apr 56, and CV 41 – 1 Sep 55 to 30 Sep 57. The waterline armor
belt (note these ships were built with an 8″ belt!) was removed (in one
day and without drydocking, for at least one of the pair!) and the
reduced wiegth used to provide a 482 foot long angle at 8degrees off
axis. The full hurricane bow was fitted, the island modernized. FDR
got a tapered pole mast; while MIDWAY retained an open lattice. The
number of 5 and 3 inch was reduced. A fresnel landing mirror was
installed. The arrestor system was strengthened but reduced to 6 wires.
The aft flight deck elevator was replaced by a starboard deck-edge
elevator, and the original portside deck-edge elevator was enlarged
along with the forward flight deck elevator. Bunker capacity was also
increased. FDR emerged form this refit with SPS-12 air search, SPS-8A
heifght finder, and surprisingly, an SC-2 antenna aft! although perhaps
it was used with the SR electronics. FDR in 1956 also shows 10 5″/54
and 10 twin 3’/50 – 4 port, 6 starboard.. Midway in 1961 has the same
gun fit, but has a new radar fit: SPS-12, SPS-43, SPS-8A, and SPS-10.
(I think Mark Miller meant SPS-43, not TPS-43. SPS-43 would correspond
to the very large bed spring antenna he mentioned, but it is a long
range air search. Surface search antennas tend to be small, because
they are generally at S or X band.).

Presuamably it is after this refit the MIDWAY adn FDR have a new
standard disp of 51,000 tons (CV41 and 50,100) CV42). Full load is
64,100(41) and 64,400 (42). i also found a light figure of 42,170 in
CONWAY’S ALL THE WORLD’S FIGHTING SHIPS 1957-1995

CORAL SEA underwent a rebuild called SCB-110A from 16 April 57 to 25
January 1960 and emerged further modernized compared to her sisters.
The angled deck was longer, the midships portside deck-edge elelvator
was replaced by a deck-edge elevator on the protside aft. The former
site of the port deckedge eleator became a fixed part of the angle,
just as the KITTY HAWKS moved the port deck edge aft compared to the
FORRESTALs. The flight deck centerline elevotros were both removed and
replaced with deck edge elevators, one forward, one aft of the island.
the new elevators weighted 53 tons each and could lift 37 tons. CORAL
SEA also got a tapered pole mast. CVA43 also got 3, not two C-11 steam
catapults, includigng a waist (along the angle deck) installation. A
Mk 7 arrestor system was added. CORAL was also bulged bringing her hull
beam to 121 feet. She commissioned with SPS-37 (maybe) , SPS-12 and
SPS-8A radars. She had only 6 x 5″/54, two on port side (both aft)
and no 3 inch. (The photos do NOT clearly show that the antenna is in
fact an SPS-37.)

At this point CORAL AMRU’s std disp appears to be 52,500, with a full
load of 64,400.

At least 9 of the 5″/54 guns removed fropm these ships were provided to
Japan. They formed the main armament (3 guns/ship) of the three
MURASAME class destroyers of the JMSDF, commissioned in 1959 and
retired by 1989.

By June 63 MIDWAY now carried an SPS-43 and SPS-30 height finder radar
(the big oval dish with the side mounted feedhorn Mark Miller
mentioned). Further she is already at only 4 x 5″/54, one at each
corner. The aft Mk 37 5″ director had been removed as well, leaving
only one of these directors aboard atop the island.

By 1965, FDR is carrying SPS-30 in place of both the SPS-8A and SPS-12;
she too has only 4 x 5″/54 guns. Surprisingly there does not seem to
be a long range regular air search radar aboard. WHeereas, CORAL SEA
in a January 65 photo has both SPS-30 and SPS-43, but only three x 5″/54
guns (no gun starboard forward). She loses the aft Mk 37 director by a
26 july 67 photo. CORAL was the only ship to carry a bridle catcher
horn on the angle, after her refit, but it is removed again by the time
of this photo.

On 15 Feb 1966 MIDWAY commenced the SCB-101.66 conversion program,
intended to modernize her insofar as was possible. Sponsons were
installed to enlarge the flight deck, C-13 Mod ) catapults were
installed in place of the C-11, and new elevators of 50 tons capacity
installed in the same arrangement as CORAL SEA. The ship was now longer
and wider, received NTDS, an inertial nav system, a strengthened
arrestor system. The cost for the program was suppsoed to be $84.3
million, but the continual diversion of resources and effort for VietNam
and repairs to fire damage ORISKANY, FORRESTAL, and ENTERPRISE and also
apparently poor management at San Francisco Navy Yard (Mare Island,
which also managed to sink and drastically delay a nuclear submarine
they were building) resulted in the program taking twice as long as
scheduled and costing $202 million. She also emerged with only 3 x
5″/54, same arrangement as CORAL SEA. The larger flight deck probably
accounts for the discrepancy in air wing numbers noted in some of the
Harpoon thread.

It appears that her std disp at this time becomes 67,000. I didnt find
a full load figure (not looking hard though)

AS a result of this overrrun, FDR was NOT put through the same program,
but got only an austere overhaul costing only $46 million began in July
1968. the primary benefit of this refit was to at least give FDR a side
elevator forward in place of the centerline. She was out again by July
1969, wearing an SPS-30 and SPS-43 and only one Mk 37 director, but with
4 x 5″/54. FDR aquired more landing/air traffic control radars and
chaff rockets, and lost her two forward 5″/54 only after 1975, but was
decommisioned, stricken from the Navy lsit and scrapped after October
1977.

MIDWAY lost all her 5″ and probably the Mk 37 director, and received the
Mk 25 BPDMS Sea Sparrow launchers at the end of the 1970’s. I cannot
find firm info yet on when MIDWAY received the ‘flying bridge’ platform
from the aft end of the island to the crane. However, she also
apparently got a radar upgrade at this time, finally receiving the
SPS-48 and 49 pair so familiar for USN big ships from the mid 80’s.

MIDWAY received the hull blisters in an April-November 1986 refit in
Yokosuka. The problem with the blisters was not, as it was frequently
mistakenly reported, that the ship became unstable; rather she became
TOO stable, with a restoring force (righting moment) that synchronized
with her natural roll so well that she would continue to roll too far
in the other direction, taking water over the deck edges. This was
apparently similar to the situation of tehe first Gemran dreadnought
battleships, the POSEN/RHEINLAND/NASSAU/WESTFALEN, whose natural roll
period happened to suynchronize too well with North Sea swells and
suffered a similar problem until enlarged bilge keels were fitted. A
plan to improve this situation by cutting notches (essentially the
inverse of bilge keels, but with a similar effect) in the bulges was
apparently never actually carried out. Apparently she also got her two
Phalanx at the time of the bulges, still retaining the BPDMS.

CORAL SEA served essentially unchanged until October 1983, carrying the
last SPS-30 in the fleet. At that time she went into dockyard at
Norfolk, receiving 3 Phalanx, SPS-48 and SPS-49. CORAL MARU never
carried Sea Sparrow. She emerged from the refit in January 1985, with
now the capability to carry F/A-18’s. She began her deactivation and
stripping down in 10/89.

If anyone can supplement further or provide more date clarifiactions,
feel free to do so. The PRIMARY reference for this was the second
edition of Terzibaschitsch’s AIRCRAFFT CARRIERS OF THE US NAVY.

-Brooks

Someone here (I think) recently quoted a passage from Kipling’s “The Young
British Soldier”:

“Jest roll to your rifle an’ blow out your brains,
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.”

I’m ashamed to admit I’ve never read any of Kipling’s verse, but would like
to. Can someone suggest a few good volumes?

Thanks,
Tom

Tom Robison
Ossian, Indiana
**Please Note NEW E-mail Address*
tcrobi@adamswells.com

Data on the nuclear test in question is as follows, extracted
from this URL:

http://www.envirolink.org/issues/nuketesting/hew/Usa/Tests/Dominic.html

note this is a longish URL and may wrap around if your mail window isn’t
wide enough… The highest level of this URL ahs a considerable amount
of history of nuclear weapons, btw.

Also at this location is data on the Swordfish test of a live nuclear
ASROC from
the USS AGERHOLM (FRAM GEARING class) and several photos of this test
including
an ovehead view of the spray dome which I had not previously seen.

“The Soviet Union had abrogated the 34 month old de facto nuclear
testing moratorium on 1 September 1961 by
initiating an unprecedented series of atmospheric nuclear
tests….Numerous atmospheric tests, many at high yield, were of course
on the drawing board at the weapons labs, some
carried over from planning for previous test series. Official U.S.
action on convening its own atmospheric series did
not begin until 10 October 1961 when President Kennedy approved
planning for one. Final approval was given on 2
March 1961, 7 weeks in advance of the first planned test.

” Dominic included 36 tests…..Conducted as part of Operation Dominic
was a series of high altitude tests known as Operation Fishbowl. These
tests
were Thor missile launched warheads detonated at very high altitudes
(30-248 miles) to evaluate the destructive
mechanisms and effects of high yield explosions against ballistic
missile RVs.”

After going through each of several air-dropped Dominic tests in some
detail, we eventually get to this:

“Test:Starfish Prime
Time: 9:00 9 July 1962 (GMT)
Location: Johnston Island
Test Height and Type: Missile Airburst; 248 miles
Yield:1450 Kt

Device Diameter (inches):20
Device Length (inches):54.3
Device Weight (lb.):1665

“This was the second attempt to launch the Starfish test. The original
Starfish was launched on 20 June, but the Thor
missile engine cut out only 59 seconds after launch. The range safety
officer sent the destruct signal 65 seconds after
launch, and the missile was destroyed at 30-35,000 ft. The warhead high
explosive detonated in 1-point safe fashion,
destroying the warhead without producing nuclear yield. Large pieces of
the missile fell back on Johnston Island, and
more wreckage along with plutonium contamination was found on nearby
Sand Island.

“Starfish Prime was successful. The Thor missile carried the test
instrumentation and the W-49 warhead/Mk-4 RV
payload to 248 miles. The test appeared quite spectacular from Hawaii
(800 miles away) and at Kwajalein (1600 miles
away), with impressive light displays from an artifical aurora lasting
up to seven minutes. The electromagnetic pulse
(EMP) from this test sent power line surges throughout Oahu, knocking
out street lighting, blowing fuzes and circuit
breakers, and triggering burglar alarms.

“The W-49 warhead used in this test was used on the Thor, Atlas,
Jupiter, and Titan missiles, and was a descendant of
the versatile Mk-28 thermonuclear bomb.”

The two phtographs provided showing the aurora-like visual effect of
this test are at URL’s:

http://www.envirolink.org/issues/nuketesting/hew/Usa/Tests/Dstarfish1s.jpg

and as above but /Dstarfish2.jpg

-Brooks