From Wed Jul 09 15:52:07 1997
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 06:52:18 -0400
>From: Patrick McSherry >Reply-To: pmm@redrose.net
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U)
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: [Fwd: An interesting story]
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Hello,
>
>I thought some list members may find this intetesting.
>
>Patick
>Conestoga. PA
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>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:14:04 -0600 (MDT)
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>To: titanic-discuss@silverquick.com
>From: dngart@aurora.k12.co.us (Deborah Gilbert)
>Subject: An interesting story
>Reply-To: titanic-discuss@silverquick.com
>X-ListMember: pmm@redrose.net [titanic-discuss@silverquick.com]
>
>*** Champagne still sweet after 80 years under water
>
>Divers have sampled a bottle of 90-year-old champagne brought up from
>the wreckage of a ship carrying luxury goods to pre-revolutionary
>Russia and pronounced it thoroughly drinkable. Thousands of bottles of
>champagne, cognac and fine wine have been found in the wreckage of the
>Swedish ketch Jonkoping, which was torpedoed in the Baltic Sea south
>of Finland in 1916 by a submarine. The sensation of drinking the
>90-year-old French champagne — the label was lost but the cork
>revealed a 1907 vintage — was described as as “dizzying.” See
>http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=3830947-d7a
>
>
>Deborah
>Colorado USA
>
>
>
> ========================
>Titanic Discuss list is owned by Mark Taylor:
>All list matters can be referred to him : themet@mindspring.com
>You may subscribe/unsubscribe at:http://www.silverquick.com
> ==========================
>

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From Wed Jul 09 20:15:57 1997
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:35:23 +0000
>From: “David L. Riley” >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
>To: brooksar@indy.net
>CC: Tim Lanzendoerfer , mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Re: CABOT etc.
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Brooks A Rowlett wrote:
> >
> > Tim Lanzendoerfer wrote:
> > >
> > >. Wasn’t San Jacinto the
> > > vessel from which former President Bush flew when he was shot down?
> >
> > I think that’s correct. Former President Gerald Ford served as
> > a surface Navy officer on another of these vessels, but I can’t
> > remember which….
> >
> > -BR
>
> According to “Presidents of WWII,” one of the Pentagon’s 50th
>Anniversary of WWII handouts, here’s who served on what vessels:
>
>Kennedy: PT-109
>Ford: USS Monterey
>Carter: USS Wyoming, USS Mississippi, USS Pomfret
>Bush: USS San Jacinto, USS Finback (sort of: shot down, rescued by
>Finback, spent remainer of sub’s patrol aboard)
>
>LBJ and RMN served in the US Navy in the Pacific but not at sea.
>
> You can see more on President Bush’s naval career on the USS San
>Jacinto at: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq10-1.htm
>
> – David Riley

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From Thu Jul 10 09:35:17 1997
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:35:04 -0700
>From: Mike Potter
>Reply-To: mike.potter@artecon.com
>Organization: Artecon, Inc.
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I)
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: N Korea targeting US CV/CVN?
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>[Following is apparently from the Yonhap News Agency, a South Korean
>enterprise. It arrived from a reliable source but without information
>about the article’s author, its copyright status, or its credibility.]
>
>Defector Hwang says N. Korea sees war as way to unity
>_____________________________________________________
>
>SEOUL, May 9, 1997 — North Korean defector Hwang Jang Yop has told
>South Korean intelligence officials that North Korea’s leadership
>believes a war is the only way to unify the Korean Peninsula, Yonhap
>News Agency reported Friday.
>
>Kwon Young Hae, head of South Korea’s intelligence organization, told a
>parliament intelligence committee that Hwang said in a debriefing that
>the Pyongyang leadership puts the highest priority on the country’s
>military power, Yonhap said.
>
>Hwang was a secretary of Pyongyang’s ruling Workers Party of Korea when
>he defected to the South Korean Embassy in Beijing in February after his
>visit to Japan. He arrived in Seoul on April 20 after spending a month
>in the Philippines.
>
>Hwang also told South Korean intelligence officials that he believes
>North Korea has developed nuclear weapons, in view of its refusal to
>accept international inspection of its nuclear facilities and its
>declaration of withdrawal from the International Atomic Energy Agency in
>March 1993.
>
>Kim Chong Ho, chairman of the parliament intelligence committee, quoted
>Kwon, head of the Agency for National Security Planning, as saying,
>”Hwang said Kim Jong Il has ordered all-out and full support for the
>military after the death of his father Kim Il Sung.”
>
>Kim Jong Il has become the de facto North Korean leader since Kim Il
>Sung died in July 1994, even though he has not assumed his father’s
>posts as state president and head of the ruling Workers Party of Korea.
>
>Hwang also reportedly said Kim Jong Il repeatedly stressed the
>importance of the armed forces, saying the “military is the major pillar
>of national unification.”
>
>Hwang told South Korean intelligence officials that Kim Jong Il has
>ordered all government agencies to step up war preparedness and an
>atmosphere of preparing for war has become overwhelming since he became
>supreme commander of the armed forces in December 1991.
>
>Hwang reportedly said the North Korean leadership is 100% confident of
>winning a war and even ordinary citizens are sure of their victory in a
>war.
>
>North Korea had plans to send a suicide squad to sink a U.S. aircraft
>carrier so as to stoke up antiwar sentiment in the United States, Hwang
>reportedly told South Korean intelligence officials.
>
>North Korea is capable of manufacturing all the weapons and equipment
>needed to carry out a war and is ready for mass production of missiles,
>artillery and military helicopters, Hwang reportedly said.
>
>Pyongyang has simplified the chain of command in the armed forces to
>make it easy to start a war quickly, according to the intelligence
>chief.
>
>Kwon cited Hwang as saying that Kim Jong Il can start a war by directly
>giving the order to an officer in charge of military operations at the
>general staff of the army without going through the minister of the
>People’s Armed Forces.
>
>Kim also extended the period of mandatory military service to 13 years
>from seven, Kwon said.
>
>Touching upon the decision-making process in North Korea, Hwang said Kim
>Jong Il alone makes the final decision and senior officials are just
>like “puppets” and dare not present their own ideas.
>
>Hwang also reportedly said about 10 people from the party,
>administration and the military are at the center of Kim Jong Il’s
>”closed-door government.”
>
>Among them are Chang Song Taek, Kim’s brother-in-law and deputy bureau
>director at the Workers Party of Korea, Kim Gi Nam and Kim Guk Tae,
>secretaries of the party, Cho Myong Rok, vice marshal and chief of the
>General Political Bureau of the army, and acting Premier Hong Song Nam.
>
>–

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

From Fri Jul 11 01:08:44 1997
>From: John Snyder
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:03:56 -0700
>To: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: N Korea targeting US CV/CVN?
>Organization: MacNexus, the Sacramento Macintosh User Group
>X-Mailer: TeleFinder BBS v5.5
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Take out a US CV/CVN to stoke up ANTI-war feeling in the US? Obviously,
>these folks have not looked closely at the aftereffects of Pearl Harbor.
>
>John Snyder
>John_Snyder@bbs.macnexus.org
>USN, 1966-70

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From Fri Jul 11 05:07:51 1997
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 07:07:12 CDT
>X-Sender: ncms1@navtap-emh.navtap.navy.mil
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16)
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: “Mark Hayes (Navy Historical Center)”
>Subject: The CHESAPEAKE-LEOPARD Affair
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Regarding the Chesapeake-Leopard Affair:
>
>First, a minor correction:
>
>ships, then LEOPARD upped-anchor and preceded her to sea.>>
>
>According to the account in THE NAVAL WAR OF 1812, A DOCUMENTARY HISTORY,
>edited by William S. Dudley, LEOPARD was not one of the British frigates
>anchored in Lynnhaven Bay as CHESAPEAKE headed out to sea. She was already
>cruising off the Virginia Capes.
>
>On a more substantive note:
>
>15 miles off Cape Henry and sent over an officer with his admiral’s
>order and requested permission to search for deserters. The American
>Commodore BARRON rejected the request and Capt. HUMPHREYS, after
>repeated hailing, first directed that a shot be fired across her bows
>and then that several shots should be fired into her.>>
>
>The log of CHESAPEAKE indicates, and Dudley states, that NO warning shot was
>ever fired. Dudley’s account (based on the original documents) of these
>crucial minutes is as follows:
>
>>his ship. Within minutes and without specific warning, LEOPARD ranged
>alongside CHESAPEAKE and fired a broadside. The astonished BARRON [emphasis
>added] attempted to hail and sent his men to quarters silently, without the
>usual drumbeat. . . .LEOPARD continued to fire for ten minutes, until Barron
>struck his colors.>>
>
>Putting aside for the moment the question of the legitimacy of Humphrey’s
>demand to search CHESAPEAKE: if the officer sent over by Captain Humphreys
>verbally warned Barron that LEOPARD would open fire if the British demand
>was not honored, then Barron was guilty of gross negligence for not
>preparing for action immediately (as difficult as that may have been). If
>the British officer gave no such warning, then the openning broadside was
>truly shameful.
>
>Mark Hayes
>Naval Historical Center
>ncms1@navtap.navy.mil

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From Sun Jul 13 10:06:39 1997
>X-Sender: shirlaw@mail.what.com
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:05:42 -0700
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: David Shirlaw
>Subject: Spruance
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Spruance was commander of one task force, Fletcher the other. Spruance was
>given the command as Halsey was ill in the hospital. Spruance was NEVER as
>Naval Aviator.
>
>
>Sincerely;
>Dave Shirlaw

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From Mon Jul 14 18:01:37 1997
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:00:58 -0400 (EDT)
>X-Sender: waterfld@pop.tiac.net
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: “Walter A. Specht”
>Subject: FWD: Vassar-Navy connection
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
> >Subject: FWD: Vassar-Navy connection
> >From: waspecht@mail11.mitre.org (Walter A. Specht Jr)
> >To: waterfld@tiac.net (waterfld@tiac.net)
> >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 10:17:09 -0400
> >
> >This is for filing in Eudora Lite, and for forwarding to the Mahan Naval
> >History List.
> >
> >—– Forwarded message follows —–
> >Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 19:34:42 -0400
> >From: “Jason A. Lombard”
> >Subject: Vassar-Navy connection
> >X-Sender: jalombard@vaxsar.vassar.edu
> >To:
> >
> >>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:59:50 -0400
> >>From: Georgette Weir
> >>X-From: Georgette Weir
> >>Subject: possible event for SF 9/6?
> >>X-Sender: geweir@vaxsar.vassar.edu
> >>To: jalombard@VASSAR.EDU, wipanvini@VASSAR.EDU
> >>MIME-version: 1.0
> >>
> >>
> >>An update on the USS Hopper, an Arleigh Burke Class Aegis Destroyer named
> >>for the late Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper ’28, known to many as “the
> >>mother of computing”: it took on crew for the first time June 6 (in Maine)
> >>and was to set sail for San Francisco in August. Official commissioning was
> >>set to occur on September 6 in San Francisco, at which time it will be the
> >>U.S. Navy’s newest and most sophisticated guided missile destroyer.
> >> The Amazing Grace, as the ship is familiarly called, is 465.9 feet
> >>long and moves at a maximum speed of 31 knots or 35.7 miles per hour. It is
> >>represented by a coat of arms that includes numerous references to Grace
> >>Hopper: a single white star represents her distinction as the first woman
> >>to achieve the rank jof rear admiral; a golden lion refers to her Scottish
> >>heritage as well as to the ship’s motto “Aude et effice,” which translates
> >>to “Dare and do.”
> >> “RADM Hopper was frequently quoted using this phrase when issuing
> >>advice,” says a Navy Web site dedicated to the new ship. “The phrase
> >>captures the spirit of RADM Hopper in her quest for pushing the limits of
> >>conventional thinking and looking beyond the norm for innovative solutions
> >>and approaches to problem solving.”
> >> The USS Hopper home page can be found at
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Jason A. Lombard
> >Assistant Director – Regional Programs
> >Alumnae & Alumni of Vassar College (AAVC)
> >Alumnae House – 61 Raymond Avenue, Poughkeepsie, NY 12603-3116
> >914/437-5446
> >FAX: 914/437-7425
> >http://www.aavc.vassar.edu/
> >
> >
> >—– End of forwarded message —–
> >

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From Tue Jul 15 08:09:03 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: arctic.nadn.navy.mil: philbin owned >process doing -bs
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT)
>From: MAJ William J Philbin >X-Sender: philbin@arctic
>To: Mike Potter
>cc: mahan@microworks.net
>Subject: Re: USS Princeton (X-File)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Princeton only set off one mine in the gulf on the morning of 18
>February. It was an italian made bottom influence mine with an acoustic
>trigger. The mine exploded close aboard her stern, but not directly
>underneath it. Considering the resultant damage to Princeton, it is a
>testament to the effectiveness of mines. The other mine that was
>detonated that morning was set off by USS Tripoli. It was an Iraqi moored
>contact mine. Tripoli struck her mine first, and Princeton set off the
>second mine approximately 30 minutes (?) later while manuvering to assist
>us aboard Tripoli. I was aboard Tripoli that morning with the staff of
>CTG 151.11 when we proved that any ship can be a minesweeper – at least
>once. 🙂
>
>Semper Fi,
>Maj Bill Philbin, USMC
>USNA History Department
>
>On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Mike Potter wrote:
>
> > Current USS Princeton (CG 59) is the 6th US Navy ship to bear the name.
> > Until 1994 her homeport was Long Beach CA.
> >
> > She is the 3rd Princeton to undergo a major explosion, by setting off
> > two ground mines during Operation Desert Storm, one right underneath her
> > stern. Previous exploding Princetons were the aircraft carrier discussed
> > below and an experimental ship of about 1850, which the Mahan list
> > discussed last year, IIRC. CG 59 has a large painting of the late CVL in
> > her wardroom.
> >
> > Tracy Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > Oddly enough, the day I sent the message about the sinking of the USS
> > > Princeton during World War II, I noticed something posted on a > sign while I
> > > was driving onto my Navy Reserve duty station, near San Diego:
> > >
> > > “Welcome Back, USS Princeton”
> > > (followed by a pair of names underneath)
> > >
> > > Apparently, a pair of active duty persons had been temporarily assigned
> > > duty aboard today’s USS Princeton, and had recently returned.
> > >
> > > I live in Los Angeles, and I had no idea the we had a modern Princeton
> > > and was going to be in San Diego, It made me feel spooky.
> >
> >

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

From Tue Jul 15 00:32:53 1997
>X-Mailer: SuperTCP Internet for Windows Version 5.1 (Mailer Version 1.02)
>From: Peter Sinfield
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:34:24 cst
>Subject: Re: USS Langley, CV-1
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>John Snyder sent in:
>
> >> >Tim Lanzendoerfer wrote:
> > >she was sunk, as well as possibly date, cargo and location?>>>
> >
> >LANGLEY, which by that time was no longer a CV but rather a seaplane
> >tender (AV-3), was transporting 32 ready-to-fly P-40s of the 13th and
> >35th Pursuit Squadrons, plus pilots, and 12 crew chiefs from the 35th
> >(who at the last minute replaced 12 from the 51st aboard LANGLEY) from
> >Fremantle, Western Australia to reinforce Java. She never made it.
> >She was sunk on February 27, 1942, following an attack just before
> >noon by IJN aircraft from the carriers of Adm. Nagumo’s Kido Butai.
> >Crippled and burning, she was abandoned, survivors being picked up by
> >DDs EDSALL and WHIPPLE. WHIPPLE attempted to sink her by 4″ gunfire,
> >but the LANGLEY was still afloat when both DDs quit the scene, fearful
> >of another aerial attack. No one saw her go down.
> >>
>From: Gill, ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY 1939-42:
>
>LANGLEY was headed for Tjilitjap (on the southern coast of Java, a
>secondary base for the RNethN and now called Cilacap) with the P-40s
>John mentions. She (and the destroyers WHIPPLE (DD.217) and EDSALL
>(DD.219) which had been sent from Tjilitjap to escort her in) was
>sighted by a Japanese recconnaissance plane at about 0900 on 27
>February. Two and a half hours later, the ships were bombed by nine
>aircraft of the 11th Air Fleet, shore-based on Celebes. In the third
>attack, LANGLEY received five direct hits and the resultant fires were
>soon out of control. “Abandon ship” was ordered at 1332 and all but 11
>of the ship’s company were picked up by the two DDs. WHIPPLE then sank
>LANGLEY with gunfire, about 75 miles south of Tjilitjap.
>
>WHIPPLE and EDSALL then headed for Christmas Island, where the
>survivors were trans-shipped to the oiler PECOS (AO.6) – which was sunk
>by aircraft from SORYU on 1 March.
>
>Winslow, THE FLEET THE GODS FORGOT, says that WHIPPLE also launched
>two torpedoes which failed to sink LANGLEY, and the two DDs left the
>area before the tender actually went down. She eventually sank later
>that night, her demise observed by the crew of a Dutch PBY.
>
>Hope this is of interest.
>
>Peter
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Peter Sinfield
>Canberra ACT AUSTRALIA
>email: sinfip@anao.gov.au
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

From Mon Jul 21 12:29:54 1997
>From: “Wear, Robert K”
>To: “‘mahan@microwrks.com‘” >mahan+40microwrks+2Ecom+3B@rcas-ssc.ngb.army.mil>
>Subject: Anybody out there??
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:31:17 -0400
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version >4.0.994.63
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Haven’t received anything from the list in about three-four days. The
>listserv verifies I am subscribed?
>
>Are you guys getting this?
>
>(Sorry to waste band width on this)
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Bob Wear

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