Archive for January, 2009

Mahan list

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Mon Jul 21 18:43:35 1997
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:42:30 -0700
>From: Mike Potter
>Reply-To: mike.potter@artecon.com
>Organization: Artecon, Inc.
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I)
>To: microw@getnet.com
>Cc: riddleb@fhu.disa.mil
>Subject: Mahan list
>
>Hi Dave,
>
>I need to unsubsribe from Mahan@Microworks.net for a few weeks (summer
>vacation and a new Internet account). Where do I send the unsubscribe
>message, and where should I send the new subscribe message?
>
>–
>Michael C. Potter, Mgr, TelCo/Govt Programs mike.potter@artecon.com
>Artecon, Inc. | | mail PO Box 9000
>6305 El Camino Real -|- _|_ Carlsbad CA
>Carlsbad CA 92009 >_|_( |/_>ph 760-431-4465 >_III_ V|/ _III_ |/|_o fx 760-931-5527
> =-| L/_| _|____L_/_|==
> ___ ________|____-===L|_LL| -==| .___ |
> ___. __I____|_[_]_______|_____[__||____[_]_|__|_=====_|\__–+====–/
>\_____/|_|__| == 963 /
>|

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Article-Rebuttal (FYI)

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Tue Jul 22 07:20:04 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: ecom5.ecn.bgu.edu: mslrc owned process doing -bs
>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:19:18 -0500 (CDT)
>From: “Louis R. Coatney”
>X-Sender: mslrc@ecom5.ecn.bgu.edu
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — >Article-Rebuttal (FYI)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>
>As requested:
>
> >From Macomb, Illinois:
>
> An edited version of my following article appeared a week ago,
>yesterday, in the Quad Cities papers. It was written in reaction to a
>statement to college students by our Congressman, which epitomizes
>racialist/classwar history and politics being espoused and practiced
>nowadays–even in the White House–to the detriment of historical truth
>and justice. This is a classic example of how false history can be put to
>political misuse. In any case, racial/class politics is a very sharp and
>slippery two-edged sword.
> If you read my article and reference the statistics following it,
>you will see that the Congressman’s statement represents neither the
>truth about Vietnam veterans/dead … nor about his own district.
> The student reporter (Lisa M. Lipscomb) signed a copy of her article
>in my presence on June 27th, over a month after its publication–and after
>discussing her article over the phone with me and then meeting with me,
>to do so. She told me she taped the speech. Having read a preliminary
>draft of my article, she understands the importance of this issue … and
>the importance of her report being truthful and accurate. The COURIER’s
>telephone number is 309-298-1876.
> Thank you for your time and consideration of this issue.
>
>Louis R. Coatney, 626 Western Ave., Macomb, IL 61455
> 309-836-1447 (msg, but I cannot afford to return long dist. calls.)
>
>
> VIETNAM A WAR BETWEEN THE CLASSES IN AMERICA?
>
> by Lou Coatney, Macomb, Illinois
>
> On May 5th, Congressman Lane Evans gave a speech about the
>Vietnam War to Western Illinois University history and political
>science students and faculty here in Macomb. It was taped and then
>reported by student journalist Lisa Lipscomb in the May 7th WESTERN
>COURIER. In her words, Evans described Vietnam as “a war between the
>classes in America, and it was fought mostly by poor blacks,
>Hispanics, and working class whites.” A photo caption described Lane
>as a “Vietnam War veteran.”
>
> The COURIER has a primarily university student readership of
>about 10,000, and it strives for high journalistic standards. I was
>sure Lane is, like me, a Vietnam era veteran: someone who served 2 or
>more years active duty during Vietnam but was not there. However, the
>specific description of Vietnam as a class war is rankly Marxist
>jargon, which I hadn’t expected of Lane and which isn’t validated by
>those I knew who served and died over there. (I also remember pro-
>Vietnam “hard hat” construction workers in the streets, confronting
>antiVietnam demonstrators, on the TV.) So, to be fair to Lane, I took
>the time to investigate before reacting.
>
> Lane’s Quad Cities office confirmed he had been stationed in
>Okinawa but not sent to Vietnam, because his older brother was already
>in SE Asia, and law allows only one brother to be risked in a war zone
>at a time. I am reluctant to think Lane intentionally tries to pass
>himself off as a Vietnam veteran, so I assume the significant little
>word “era” was just overlooked or not understood. However, Lisa
>firmly stands by her report that Evans described Vietnam as a war
>between America’s classes and races and did so in the words she used.
>
> This is one of the most vicious lies about Vietnam being taught
>to our young by the intellectual Left, in its continuing effort to
>discredit our attempt to defend the Indochinese–and to escape its own
>primary guilt for the holocaust which occurred after our abandonment
>of them. It also fans the kind of race and class anger and strife
>from which the Marxist Left politically profits.
>
> OBJECTIVE FINDINGS
>
> For the past five years, objective evidence has been out that
>although there was some inverse relation between family income and
>Vietnam combat deaths–and the dead “fought” most of all–it was *not*
>large enough to justify characterizing the Vietnam War as one social
>class or race victimizing another. (OPERATIONS RESEARCH, Sep-Oct92.)
>Although the MIT research team found “economic class” easier said than
>defined, it discovered that the black deaths’ percentage was actually
>lower than the percentage of those of military age at the time who
>were black.
>
> The team observed, “If untrue, the belief that affluent citizens
>were conspicuously missing from the Vietnam war dead is harmful to all
>Americans. It demeans the sacrifices of the wealthy by implying that
>such sacrifices were nonexistent. It demeans the sacrifices of the
>nonwealthy by suggesting that, manipulated and misled, they shed their
>blood in a conflict which the privileged and influential were
>unwilling to shed theirs.” They concluded, “As of now … the
>available information supports the proposition that, in terms of the
>bereavement it brought to America, Vietnam was not a class war.”
>
> The report was attacked by James Fallows, an ATLANTIC MONTHLY
>editor, in April 1993. (As a student, Fallows gained fame for his
>article about tricks he and Ivy League friends used to dodge the
>draft. He was at Oxford soon after Clinton, then became a Carter
>speechwriter, and has now taken editorial control of U.S. NEWS & WORLD
>REPORT, purging its staff.) The researchers defended their work in
>the August issue, wherein Fallows (naturally) took the last word,
>endorsing a book by Christian Addy promoting the class-war charge.
>
> However, in Spring 1995, two ARMED FORCES & SOCIETY journal
>reports affirmed that race or class bias had not been significant
>enough factors to term Vietnam a class war. Using occupation and
>level of education data for veterans’ fathers, Thomas Wilson found
>some decreasing likelihood of service the higher the father’s
>education and the more “professional” his occupation, but that
>military service was distributed, overall. However, he did find that
>the very highest (but numerically minute) strata–the intellectual/
>professional elite–fell sharply in fair service.
>
> Allan Mazur randomly sampled race and educational attainment data
>from the Center for Disease Control’s 1985-86 Agent Orange survey of
>Army Vietnam veterans, who included most of the draftees over there.
>Mazur found that Vietnam service was evenly distributed, generally,
>except (again) in the very highest educational strata, and he found no
>race bias at all. However, the CDC survey didn’t include officers,
>who would have raised the education average significantly.
>
> In other words, members of the intellectual elite spearheading
>antiVietnam agitation–as eventually occurred at Augustana and WIU–
>are now turning around and using *themselves* to claim the service was
>class- and race-biased! This is classic guilt projection, and Fallows
>now publicly supports the draft as being democratizing. However, why
>should anyone who came into their draft boards chanting “Ho, Ho, Ho
>Chi Minh/NLF is gonna win!” be allowed in uniform? Enough of our
>young officers were shot in the back–“fragged”–as it was.
>
> Also: military survival was often determined by your performance
>in the services’ exhaustive aptitude tests–how useful you could be in
>technical roles other than combat. (Ignoring my warnings, many of my
>fellow inductees got drunk the nights before our tests.) Early in the
>war, black casualties were 20%, until Rev. King protested and racial
>restrictions on combat service were imposed. So willful race
>discrimination did occur, but to blacks’ favor. *Should* race, rather
>than objectively tested potential (or unit choice), have decided who
>was sent into combat–even considering a few states’ substandard
>education?
>
> PERSONAL REMEMBRANCES
>
> In any case, articles this year in VIETNAM magazine have also
>rejected the charge of serious race/class bias in the Vietnam War,
>investigating individual backgrounds of names on the Wall. This
>validates my own remembrance: all three kids from my Rock Island
>Senior High School Class of 1964 who were killed in Vietnam–John
>J., Tom L., and Tim B.–were white middle class. Their families
>all worked, to be sure, but they weren’t poor.
>
> All I can remember of John is an eager sense of humor and a ready
>laugh. Tom was a shy, good-natured kid all of us held in affection.
>My earliest memory of Tim was vying (unsuccessfully) with him and Bill
>L. for a toy truck in our church nursery. Tim was a determined
>competitor and achiever–in debate and student senate, for example–
>and he was fiercely proud of his dad (who was a Rock Island councilman
>and small business owner) and of his grandfather (who had been a Rock
>Island mayor). He believed in our people and our country, and he
>wanted to become a positive part of our future. If Tim had survived
>Vietnam, he’d very likely be in the Congressional seat Lane Evans now
>occupies instead.
>
> And their families were shattered by their deaths, utterly.
>
> I was told that at least one of the three confided to someone,
>while he was home on emergency leave, how wrong he felt the Vietnam
>War was. Nonetheless, he went back … dutifully … and died.
>
> After official overoptimism and civil strife, his disillusionment
>was shared by almost everyone. In fact, if the World War I
>generation had bungled World War II as badly as that war’s generation
>mismanaged the political and military planning and leadership of
>Vietnam, there would have been no V-E or V-J Day. However, the mass
>communist exterminations of Indochinese which had been predicted and
>which America was trying to prevent did indeed occur after we
>abandoned them. And the cruellest irony of all about Vietnam is that
>the war there–and the cause so many had died for–was apparently won,
>only to be then politically betrayed over here. (See LOST VICTORY, by
>the mysteriously deceased former CIA director William Colby.)
>
> MOTIVES AND AMENDS
>
> Lane has attained much for our district, thanks partly to his
>loyalty to Bill Clinton. However, Clinton and his supporters are
>desperate to downplay or vindicate the President’s antiVietnam
>agitation as a student–we still don’t know what he was doing behind
>the Iron Curtain, back then–and his avoidance of military service,
>and they are prepared to go to any extreme to discredit the war’s
>ethical motives and conduct. Smearing Vietnam as an American class
>and race war is a fast, easy, headline-grabbing way of doing this, but
>it is factually wrong and cruelly unjust. Many of our surviving
>Vietnam veterans were spit upon with contempt as they returned–see
>Bob Greene’s book HOMECOMING. This class war slander is just one
>more, intellectual way for the Left to spit … on the dead, now, too.
>
> Lane Evans has always strongly cared about and supported
>veterans’ fair compensation and needs, and he speaks up for those he
>feels have been mistreated–Agent Orange and Persian Gulf Syndrome
>victims, for example. However, truthful history and a fair, faithful
>remembrance are no less important. Indeed, the Truth is the war
>memorial that counts most … for the future.
>
> Maybe Lane Evans just didn’t know the findings on this issue, but
>he should have investigated such a hurtful and angering charge,
>himself, before he unleashed it. I would think, to try to undo the
>harm of his own spreading of this lie, he at least owes a public
>retraction (in the COURIER and wherever else) to the truth … as well
>as to those we all owe so much … and those who cared about them.
>
> We down-staters in this district realize that Quad Cities
>political machines and media largely decide our Congressmen. So, I
>ask Lane’s QCs friends and supporters to urge him to have the courage
>to admit he was wrong on this issue and wrong for saying what he did.
>
>***
>
>(Lou Coatney volunteered for the draft in early December 1966. His
>written testimony about the Smithsonian’s “Enola Gay” exhibit was
>included in U.S. Senate Hearing 104-40.)
>
>***
>
> The database of the Wall–the Vietnam war memorial in D.C.–is up
>on the Web at
> www.cpeq.com/~wall/
>
> Number of deaths listed for the Illinois Quad Cities–the principal
>urban area in this Congressional district–were: Rock Island–18,
>Moline–21, East Moline–3, Milan–3, Silvis–2, Andalusia–1,
>Coal Valley–1, Green Rock–1, Colona–1, Barstow–0, Carbon Cliff–0,
>Hampton–0, Taylor Ridge–0.
>
> All 51 are listed as white/”Caucasian”–one of them having an
>Hispanic name. (I think I should mention I do find one black
>serviceman listed among the VN dead for Davenport, Iowa, on the other
>side of the Mississipi.) There were 32 Protestants, 14 Catholics,
>2 Mormons, and 3 who did not declare a religion. 17 were Army
>draftees–which corresponds to statistical samples that 70% of the
>VN dead were “volunteers.” However, once drafted, some inductees then
>enlisted to get into a specialty they thought would be less likely to be
>used in Indochina or to get training in a technical skill which they could
>use back in civilian life. 35 were Army, 12 were Marines, 2 were Air
>Force, and 2 were Navy.
>
> The downstate cities and towns in our Congressional district I have
>checked so far are: Aledo–7, Monmouth–4, Galesburg–6, Knoxville–1,
>Roseville–1, Macomb–4, Bushnell–3, Colchester–1, Quincy–14,
>Warsaw–1, Viola–0, LaHarpe–0. All the dead were white/”Caucasian,”
>except for a young Marine from Monmouth who was black. Another young
>Marine from Monmouth has an Hispanic name. With all the small towns
>left unchecked, the total is probably well over 100. Aledo was/is a
>small town.
>
> It should be noted that these by-city listings are of residence
>at time of death. Someone who had changed his home residence listing
>after high school, for example, would be listed there, not necessarily
>where he grew up. This seems to be the case for one of my high school
>classmates whose name is so common (and information about him so
>scant, anyway) that I haven’t been able to identify him among the VN
>dead at all. (“Johnny, we hardly knew Ye” is too true.) It would be
>helpful if someone someday listed the last high school attended, for
>them.

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CV-6 relics incorporated into CVN-65

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Tue Jul 22 08:02:04 1997
>X-Authentication-Warning: arctic.nadn.navy.mil: philbin owned >process doing -bs
>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:01:17 -0400 (EDT)
>From: MAJ William J Philbin >X-Sender: philbin@arctic
>To: Brooks A Rowlett
>cc: “Wear, Robert K” , mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Re: CV-6 relics incorporated into CVN-65
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Its true about the bell. It stand in Tecumseh court, and is rung after
>the defeat of Army in the Army/Navy football game…….this would explain
>the LONG silence. 🙂
>
>Maj Bill Philbin, USMC
>USNA History Department
>*Holy Cross – 1980 – a ROTC puke in middie land! :)*
>
>On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Brooks A Rowlett wrote:
>
> > According to Steve Ewing’s USS ENTERPRISE CV-6 THE MOST DECORATED
> > SHIP OF WORLD AWAR TWO from Pictorial Histories Publishing,
> > One anchor is on display at the Navy Yard in Washington DC, the
> > fantail portion wiht the ships name, 16 feet long, is in a park in
> > River Vale township NJ, ENTERISE’s bell is at the Naval Academy
> > and is supposedly rung only after midshipmen victories over West
> > point. Other extant items listed as of the date of this book
> > copyright ’82, are teh builder’s plaque, a wing from Japanese
> > plane shot down by the ship, some deck planking, two flags flown
> > uring separate battles, anchor chain, a wardroom table, a rudder
> > angle indicator, war plaques, trophies, two steering stands,
> > funnel whistle and siren, some clocks, some paintigs and her logs
> > several additional items including portholes, valve wheels and
> > clocks are aboard the current nuclear ENTERPRISE.
> >
> > This 1986 “exhibit edition” reprint of teh book has an additional
> > chapter discussing the creation of an ENTERPRISE exhibit at the Naval
> > Aviaiton Museum in Pensacola FL (which I am sure is on the
> > web but I am too tired to look up right now). Apparently many of
> > the lose artifacts described above are now there.
> >
> > -Brooks A Rowlett
> >
> >

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Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Article-R

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Tue Jul 22 08:45:11 1997
>Comments: Authenticated sender is
>From: “James H. E. Maugham”
>Organization: RST Environmental Services, Inc.
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:44:15 -0500
>Subject: Re: Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Article-R
>Reply-to: CaptJHEM@waterw.com
>Priority: normal
>X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>On 22 Jul 97 at 9:19, Louis R. Coatney wrote:
>
> > As requested:
>
>As I didn’t get a chance to request it Lou, I’m very grateful that you posted
>it. Thanks for another of your excellent jobs. FWIW my personal experience
>would lend credence to your findings.
>
>Regards,
>
>James
>
>5th SF; MRF; LRRP/CRIP Plt. 2/39 – 9th Inf. Div., So. VN – 1967 to 1969
>In the Heart of the Pine Barrens 39 54 03 N, 74 49 26 W

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Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Article-R

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Tue Jul 22 09:37:17 1997
>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:40:17 -0700
>From: TMO/TX
>Reply-To: swrctmo@iAmerica.net
>Organization: Kestrel/SWRC/OAssoc
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I)
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Re: Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Article-R
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
> > > As requested:
> >
>Spoken loudly and well, Lou, but unfortunately to this forum, less
>gullible than the Congressman’s audience.
>
>While the nature of the conflict in Viet Nam (or more likely the faulty
>methodolgy of our troop de/employments) may have increased casualty
>rates among the minorities or the poor, the casualty rates among Naval
>aviators or Marine 2LTs were no less “excessive” (as they have been in
>most wars).
>
>As one who spent his entire active duty in the Atlantic and Med, I don’t
>grieve for not going, but I do painfully remember the loss of my best
>man and two former roomates, college graduates from “affluent” families,
>one with a masters, all pretty close to the “Best and the Brightest.”
>On the other hand, the miserable record of all too many of our
>”academic” and “entertainment” communities has not resulted in their
>receiving the public opprobrium and rejection so well deserved.
>
>Just as my father would never purchase a Japanese-made product as long
>as there were any viable alternative, his two long years attached to the
>CHINATs providing him a with as sound a basis as exists for prejudice,
>personal experience, and my mother would never after the war trade with
>a grocer grown rich on the black market, I attempt to make conscious
>buying decisions relevant to the political and social posturing of some
>of my contemporaries. To wit…I’ll stay up late to watch Henry Fonda
>once more portray Mr. Roberts, but wouldn’t piss on Jane if her guts
>were on fire (or sentiments like unto same).
>
>On the other hand, no public “mea culpa”, no pillory or punishment, no
>painful experience could comprise adequate retribution for the grotesque
>and by God only, if then, barely forgivable sins of Robt. MacNamara.
>There’s a likely candidate for two-blocking at the mainyard of
>”Constitution” while all hands are mustered in the gangways to witness
>punishment.
>–
>Kestrel Syndicate – Oliver Associates – Southwest Regional Council
> “Quid consilium cepit…”

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Touched with Fire

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Jul 31 15:21:44 1997
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:24:45 -0700
>From: TMOliver
>Reply-To: swrctmo@iAmerica.net
>Organization: Kestrel/SWRC/Oliver
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I)
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>Subject: Re: Touched with Fire
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>TMOliver wrote:
> >
> > Bill Riddle wrote:
> > >
> > > Having quoted the book (in a post on BBs), let me give my initial
> > > impressions of Touched with Fire, Eric Bergerud (Viking, 1996):
> > >
> > > Having now read 67 pages, my initial impression is that this is a
> > > valuable book.
> >
>While I have not read (but look forward to) the book and my immoderately
>modest evaluation of the skills of most flag/general officers are on
>record here, for whatever reasons, accident, blind luck,
>political(saving A/NZ), ‘cuz we wuz there, etc., the campaign
>accomplishedsomething that Central Pacific island-hopping never could,
>the creation of an immensely bloody, draining meat grinder for ships,
>a/c, and trained personnel in which disease, malnutrition and steel
>combined to eat the heart from the Japanese military.
>
>Aside from the results of the awesome attrition, the campaign did
>represent a thrust which the Japanese could not fail to oppose, a sword
>pointed at their fuel supplies without which the conduct of anything
>other than a suicidal defense of the home islands was temporary if not
>impossible.
> —
>
>Far too long for a sig, but personally compelling…
>
>
>
>Having been to see the elephant, contemplated the impermanence of
>
>
>
>existence, gazed upon the Apocalypse, and smelled Death’s rotting
>
>
>
>breath close at hand, one siezes reward from the simplest of
>
>
>
>pleasures…the sound of the surf, the cool, musty bite of a well-brewed
>
>
>
>ale, the briny tang imparted by a fresh oyster, the dark heart of a
>
>
>
>carefully aged whisky, the incomparable taste of the first slash of rare
>
>
>
>beef, the aggressive impact of a powerful pinot, Summer’s first real
>
>
>
>tomato, the smoky complex fire of chipotle sauce, the combined reek of
>
>
>
>gunpowder and working dogs across an Autumn pasture, the blessed
>
>
>
>combination of green chile and tomatillo, the ectasy of lump or backfin
>
>
>
>crabmeat (from blues), fresh Gulf Snapper or the season’s first inshore
>
>
>
>shrimp, all prepared with Spartan simplicity, the shadowed glimpse of a
>
>
>
>nipple within the gap of a loose blouse, the “Scent of a Woman” (not the
>
>
>
>movie, the experience), the astringent bite of lime-dosed gin and tonic
>
>
>
>in a tropical twilight, the lung-filling tingle of the first drag on a
>
>
>
>post-coital Camel, smoked salmon and a good Sunday newspaper….among
>
>
>
>these are found ample joys to counter inevitable misfortune and grief.
>
>
>
>Oliver Sends/OPIMMEDIATE

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Constitution

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Wed Jul 23 21:15:45 1997
>X-Sender: tcrobi@pop.mindspring.com
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:18:55 -0500
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: Tom Robison
>Subject: Re: Constitution
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Bill Riddle wrote-
>
> > If you haven’t yet seen it … find a copy of “All Hands” June 97
> > issue. It has a very nice series of articles on Constitution: her
> > current crew, their training (turns out USCG trained them in Eagle!),
> > the 200 year history (short version), and Oliver Wendell Holmes 1830
> > poem that made this 1997 event possible (“Aye, tear her tattered
> > ensign down!”).
>
>I read O.W. Holmes poem many years ago and have not seen it since. Can
>someone post it here? Thanks.
>Tom
>
>
>Tom Robison
>Ossian, Indiana
>tcrobi@mindspring.com

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Re[2]: Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Ar

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Wed Jul 23 21:15:27 1997
>X-Sender: tcrobi@pop.mindspring.com
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:18:55 -0500
>To: mahan@microwrks.com
>From: Tom Robison
>Subject: Re[2]: Was Vietnam “a war between classes in America”? — Ar
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Bill Riddle wrote
> >
> >… Robt. MacNamara. There’s a likely candidate for two-blocking at the
> >mainyard of “Constitution” while all hands are mustered in the gangways
> >to witness punishment.
>
>Why are you being so merciful toward him, Bill?
>
>
>Tom Robison
>Ossian, Indiana
>tcrobi@mindspring.com

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Announcements

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Jul 24 07:57:09 1997
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 16:53 MET DST
>To: mahan@microwrks.com, wwii-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu
>Subject: Announcements
>X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.0
>X-Sender: 0611603955-0001@t-online.de (Silvia Lanzendoerfer)
>From: BWV_WIESBADEN@t-online.de (Tim Lanzendoerfer)
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>Good day, Ladies and Gentlemen.
>Today I write to you because I would like to announce the publication of the
>first part, and so to speak “demo version”, of a set of internet >pages I am in
>the process of creating, on the subject of the US Navy in the Pacific War.
>What I need is people who have the time to check spelling (less important) or
>context errors (most important).
>Also, if you are pleased with what you’ve read, I need someone who >hasd server
>space left over to afford the volume of data I want to put up – >you’ll read what
>I want to put up when you visit my pages at
>
>http://home.t-online.de/home/BWV_Wiesbaden/pacific.htm
>
>Thanks,
>Tim
>
>
>Tim Lanzendoerfer | “England expects that
>Amateur Naval | every man will do his
>Historian | duty” – NELSON
>http://home.t-online.de/Home/BWV_Wiesbaden/index2.htm

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

Constitution

Friday, January 2nd, 2009

From Thu Jul 24 16:28:11 1997
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:27:17 -0500
>From: Brooks A Rowlett
>Reply-To: brooksar@indy.net
>Organization: nonexistent
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>To: Tom Robison
>CC: Mahan Naval History Mailing List
>Subject: Re: Constitution
>Precendence: bulk
>Sender: mahan-owner@microworks.net
>
>The Poem “Old Ironsides” is available on the internet, linked from the
>Navy’s USS COnstitution fact sheet.
>
>For general information, see:
>http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/oldiron.html
>
>or
>
>http://www.ussconstitutionmuseum.org/
>
>For the Constitution’s official home page, see:
>
>http://www.ncts.navy.mil/homepages/constitution/
>
>which has a two step link to the poem, (“history”, then “Old
>Ironsides”), or go directly to the poem, at:
>
>http://www.ncts.navy.mil/homepages/constitution/poem.htm
>
>In addition, for a fun site, see
>
>http://www.oldironsides.com/
>
>now, in recognition that not everyone who has email has www
>access, here is the text of poem and other material, from the link
>above:
>
>
>
>
> Aye, tear her tattered ensign down!
> Long has it waved on high,
> And many an eye has danced to see
> That banner in the sky;
> Beneath it rung the battle shout,
> And burst the cannon’s roar;-
> The meteor of the ocean air
> Shall sweep the clouds no more!
>
> Her decks, once red with heroes’ blood,
> Where knelt the vanquished foe,
> When winds were hurrying o’er the flood,
> And waves were white below,
> No more shall feel the victor’s tread
> Or know the conquored knee;-
> The harpies of the shore shall pluck
> The eagle of the sea!
>
> Oh, better that her shattered hulk
> Should sink beneath the wave;
> Her thunders shook the mighty deep,
> And there should be her grave;
> Nail to the mast her holy flag,
> Set every threadbare sail,
> And give her to the god of storms,
> The lightning and the gale!
>
> Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1830
>
>Somewhere which I couldn’t find was another Navy site which had
>the additional text whihc originally accompanied the poem. This
>explained that the decision had been made to scrap the vessel and that
>the poem was an appeal for retention.
>
>-Brooks A Rowlett
>brooksar@indy.net

Posted via email from mahan’s posterous

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The Mahan Naval Discussion List hosted here at NavalStrategy.org is to foster discussion and debate on the relevance of Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan's ideas on the importance of sea power influenced navies around the world.
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